David Ben joins Jonah this episode to discuss if magic is an art form, producing shows, and developing a curatorial eye to improve your magic. From being a performer to a producer to the founder of Magicana, David has spent the last 40 years shaping magic as an art in the public eye. 

Kiko Pastur joins Jonah this week to discuss aesthetic magic, challenging your creativity, and finding symbolism in an effect. Kiko is a magician from A Coruña, Spain, whose style draws on the beauty and wonder of our world.